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[14:40:38] >NickServ< identify **** [14:40:38] -NickServ- Invalid password for MaNU_. [14:41:26] * Now talking on #libregraphicsmagazine [14:41:57] hi, all here manuel. ready for starting interview in 20 mins. [14:43:55] great. we'll be ready shortly, once Ana and Ricardo get back from lunch. [14:45:22] we'll be on in 10minutes. Chewing last bits now [14:45:51] ok. [14:55:55] * aisc (~ana@237.236.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt) has joined #libregraphicsmagazine [14:57:31] so i guess we're just waiting for Ricardo now. [14:58:35] right, i think we're all here [14:58:42] (i'm sitting right next to ana) [14:58:49] Great! [14:59:11] M4nu: anytime is fine now! [14:59:23] ok, then maybe as an introduction, i tell you a few words about who i am. [14:59:55] my full name is Manuel Schmalstieg, i'm a visual artist, coder, designer, based around Geneva, switzerland. [15:00:31] have gone from comics and animated 16mm film into software and live video processing in the late 90s [15:01:08] working a lot in collective situations, and launched during 2009 an experimental print publishing structure, Greyscale Press. [15:01:47] which is using print-on-demand services to produce books from open-source, found, stolen or anonymous sources [15:02:26] So, this interview is aimed at being published and disseminated through the Greyscale Press website. [15:02:49] i suggest that we already agree on an open licence under which all content of this interview should be published. [15:03:22] sure -- we use CC-BY-SA on our magazine, in case you're okay with that one. Otherwise, which license would you suggest? [15:03:34] CC-BY-SA is fine. [15:04:12] If you're ready, then we start now. [15:04:21] Fine by me [15:04:24] Awesome [15:04:35] Yes with me [15:05:30] First of all, i would like you three to introduce yourself, and also give an overwiew of the main contributors to the LGM nr1 [15:06:08] shall we do alphabetical order? [15:06:11] Ana? [15:06:22] Fine [15:06:55] I have a degree in Communication Design [15:07:22] I currently work as a freelance web and ui interface designer [15:07:43] (let me know also from where you work, and your main web URI) [15:08:05] I became involved with the Libre Graphics Community and the Free Software Movement in general in 2006 [15:08:15] after attending the LGM [15:08:44] Since 2007 I'm working mainly with free software [15:09:16] I'm involved in a small press venture - http://planapress.org - that I present at last LGM [15:09:48] It is dedicated to publishing BD and Iluustration using free software and open licenses [15:10:06] *comics and illustration [15:10:33] I think that's it for now [15:10:39] alright. i think that's fine as an introduction. Ginger? [15:10:49] Here goes. [15:10:51] I trained as a graphic and web designer (BFA in Design, Concordia University, Montreal) but, after working for a very commercial web design firm, got fed up pretty quickly with the design for hire approach. I still do freelance work, but what interests me more is design research. I started working with F/LOSS graphics in 2001, but only got involved in the community in 2009, when I gave a talk at Libre Graphics Meeting in Mont [15:10:51] real. [15:11:32] Now I'm finishing my Masters degree, working on a thesis about colour standards for print. [15:11:57] And I do advocacy work, introducing designers and artists to F/LOSS. [15:12:14] My own work is at http://adaptstudio.ca [15:12:28] And these days, I'm based in Toronto (Canada). [15:12:29] Fine. and you live/work in Montreal? [15:12:33] ok. [15:12:35] Toronto now. [15:12:42] Some work in Montreal still [15:12:49] And I think that's it for me. [15:13:03] Btw, ana, i think i missed live/work location? [15:13:28] I was born and I live in Porto, Portugal [15:13:50] And it's also where I work from [15:14:03] Ok. [15:14:27] My name is Ricardo Lafuente, and my academic background is communication and media design (BA at Porto Fine Arts, MA at Piet Zwart Institute in Rotterdam). I've been doing stuff as a designer, hacker, artist and coder. I made the switch to FLOSS tools in 2006, and since then i've been mostly working with code for design purposes, as well as coding for the web and other kinds of hacks. Since September i'm a teacher at Port [15:15:03] Also live and work from Porto. [15:16:31] Thanks. I understand that you three are the core editorial team. What other people were involved, to what degree? And was the work done via online .CA / .PT communication, or rather in one geographic place? [15:16:56] For our very first (trial) issue, we were actually in one place at the same time. [15:17:23] That's issue #0, which we completed in May at the Libre Graphics Meeting in Brussels. [15:17:38] Even most of our contributors for that one were actually in the same room as us. [15:17:47] But things have been very different since then. [15:17:55] (as an aside, it was done in 3 days from start to finish, and available at http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2010/index.php?p=en%2Fnews%2Fmagazine) [15:18:20] So #0 was done in the context of a "local" event. Was that different for #1 ? [15:18:25] This time around, almost all of our work was done by distance [15:18:46] We met once, for a few hours, in Barcelona, in November. [15:19:12] Our contributors are from around the world (although both interviews in the issue took place in person) [15:19:35] And most of our collaboration was helped around by a shared git repository. [15:20:00] We have a mailing list we use frequently [15:20:56] was the release date linked to some special context - festival, conference ... [15:21:00] And also a community advisory board, made up of 5 people who are connected, in some way or another, to the Libre Graphics scene. The board's purpose is to advise us when we reach some hard-to-decide editorial decisions. [15:21:27] The release date actually was chosen strategically [15:21:33] although we overshot a little. [15:21:56] The plan was to have print copies of the magazine on hand in November so that we could take them to a number of events [15:22:10] At the beginning of November, FOSSASIA took place in Vietnam [15:22:22] The DIY Citizenship conference happened in Toronto [15:22:35] and the HTMlles festival happened in Montreal. [15:22:39] All in one weekend. [15:22:54] We had hoped to send magazines to all these events, as well as to the Expozine small press fair. [15:23:11] Unfortunately, we didn't get all of our printing sorted out in time. [15:23:31] But that was part of the strategic reasoning behind November. [15:23:38] Plus, it works with our release cycle [15:24:00] We released an issue last May, we knew we wouldn't be able to get one ready in August, [15:24:19] so we decided to go, from November, with a November-February-May-August release cycle [15:24:30] Regarding release cycle, i read sometimes 1.1 and sometimes #1 - which is correct? [15:24:47] Both are, in a way [15:25:02] Our idea was to use 1.1-1.4 for our first year run [15:25:03] 1.1 is the volume and issue number [15:25:11] #1 is the issue number [15:25:35] What it means is that there'll be another #1, this time next year, but it'll be the #1 of volume 2 [15:25:37] Hence, 2.1 [15:26:08] oops. sorry. lag. [15:26:12] As i see it, the mag was born in the context of the LGMeetings, but is structurally independent from it [15:26:17] yep [15:26:41] But it's throught that meetings/conferences that your team came together. [15:27:11] For sure. But we realize that we need to grow a presence beyond the confines of an annual meeting [15:28:29] Now a bit more about content ... [15:28:52] what were your founding ideas, when you decided to do a "magazine" [15:29:05] what does this term mean actually, today. [15:29:15] Ooh. Nice question. [15:29:25] I've been meaning to write a blog post about that. [15:29:36] or: where did you start from : content , title, target audience ? [15:29:44] We see the importance of a print magazine as being largely in its accessibility and immediacy. [15:30:02] We really have to trace ourselves to two different start dates [15:30:06] And two different ideas [15:30:30] In May, someone (Femke? a.le.?) came up with the idea of doing a magazine for LGM [15:30:43] Ana and Ricardo took the lead on that [15:30:53] and then brought me in to handle the editorial stuff\ [15:31:17] After that mad rush, which didn't have a huge amount of thought about philosophy, [15:31:29] we sat for a few months and then brought the idea back in August [15:32:02] For me, it was because I'd been traveling around, meeting artists, designers and developers, and realizing that we had a community without a voice. [15:32:24] So we discussed it and decided to do it again, better. And we wrote a manifesto. [15:32:51] So in that sense, we thought about format and audience first, because the format is really tied into the audience [15:33:40] here i would love to have input from Ana and Ricardo as well. [15:33:50] Sure, [15:35:20] We jumped on the opportunity to work on #0 since we were very energised by the pre-LibreGraphicsMeeting spirit. Also, we were helping OSP with organising the meeting, and the idea of having a magazine that could be released during the conference was too exciting not to try. [15:36:19] We had seen ginger's work and texts before, and asked her to work together since she was much more seasoned in editorial contexts, while we were more comfortable taking over the design side. [15:37:14] Even though it was a 'mad rush' the libre graphics mag #0 was a great way to test our improvised team. A few months after we started discussing how we could take this project farther. We all new it was a significant turning point and that it would be a great chance to put out all the great grapical work being done with free software [15:38:48] And such a publication was definitely something that we wanted to see happen. Designers who use FLOSS are a rarity in our part of the world (and not abundant in other places either), so the opportunity to create a project to further this agenda was something that we quickly jumped on. [15:39:45] it's striking that your mag is unifying so many different aspects: samples of graphic work done with FLOSS, interviews, cultural discourse, and a little bit of tech stuff. [15:39:47] Of course, it's not only about designers; the whole idea of Libre Graphics extends to the arts in general, and other peripheral areas of thought and action (social studies, writing, etc.) [15:40:31] We're really trying hard to bring in the best of what we've seen (and consumed!) in traditional arts magazines, too [15:40:44] There's the idea that we need a little criticality and thought in our practice [15:41:27] But at the same time, to be useful and palatable to people new to this world (and to ourselves) we need to be able to show off some really beautiful, professional work. [15:41:46] And it doesn't do to be afraid of our technology, either. [15:41:57] So we're not. Which is why we do things like include code. [15:42:11] also, each time i pick up a linux magazine in some newspaper shop, i'm astonished by the absence of cultural discourse. i guess that might have been a motivation for you too? [15:42:13] Because it's worth seeing the code under the image. [15:42:56] We're certainly pleased to see ourselves offering something Linux magazines aren't although we like to think that we serve a slightly more generalist audience. [15:43:12] Anyone working in a visual field should be able to pick it up and enjoy it. [15:43:26] Definitely, we've been on both sides, reading both arts publications and computer magazines. One of the first questions was how to have something that could bridge those worlds together without becoming an awkward collage of tech and culture. [15:44:24] And it does beg the question of why tech and culture should be so much apart as they are in the current editorial landscape. [15:45:55] in your manifesto, you mention a possible "online version" that would differ from the print mag. [15:46:19] and when reading the PDF of your mag on screen, it's obvious that it works best as a printed item. [15:46:24] Not that there's an easy answer, but that's one of the challenges we decided to take on in building Libre Graphics Magazine. Also, that issue pertains not only to editorial content, but to the design aspect as well -- namely, we had to play with the conventions associated to both arts publications and computer magazines, again trying to combine them into something that is more than a mishmash between the two. [15:48:16] so the "web edition" .. is this planned for the future, or will your main focus be the printed mag. [15:48:19] And we are very committed to the (forthcoming) web version, because there's something a little absurd about reading on a screen something that's meant to be held [15:48:29] (answering next question:) Yes, we did plan (and are planning) for different magazine formats suited to different use cases. For instance, it's okay to have a PDF version, but are there easier ways to print out the edition?We didn't have the time to work on those for issue #1, but there will be news in the next issues. [15:48:50] sorry, bad sentence there: [15:48:58] Once we have a little more stability, we'll be working on it. [15:49:19] At the moment, we've been focusing on populating, publishing and being able to afford the printing costs of the print edition [15:49:27] "but are there easier ways to print out the edition?" -> "but maybe we can think of something better than a print-like PDF for people to print the magazine at home?" [15:51:06] I'd add that our main focus would be the printed mag; there's something in that object that a website cannot replace. [15:51:27] I assume that you have used a pretty non-standard workflow for print publishing, using Git for unifying / synching the different contributions ... how did that work, what were the problems you met, unexpected discoveries... [15:51:28] For sure. We can hand it out, it can be shared, distributed, kept, catalogued... [15:52:20] Yes, we did use a few unorthodox procedures... [15:53:03] Well, the most important thing I can remember is that we need a README for the layout document, stating which version of the software were using. [15:53:25] Git was a godsend. In the design world there's not much awareness about version control systems, but using one was a huge help in that all our contributions and corrections are catalogued. [15:54:57] And Scribus, our tool of choice to create the magazine layout, held out very well from start to end. We ran into quite a few bugs (not only in Scribus), which we gathered into a list and will send to the respective bug trackers. [15:55:16] Also a centralised place to keep all the relevant data relating the magazine. From content to production and planning documents. [15:56:08] Plus, the nice thing about git is that it allows us all to tailor it to our personal preferences, in terms of frontends. [15:56:46] As a case of extremes, one of our columnists likes using git from the command line, whereas I prefer Sparkleshare. [15:56:52] Finally, to be honest, we didn't run into significant problems in that workflow. Our content was synced between all of us, we could quickly share corrections, as well as be able to change the layout at will without risk of conflicts between our versions. [15:57:27] We used Git from the command line. It's quiet simple. [15:57:37] *quite [15:57:52] There we go. Different frontends, same backend. [15:57:58] and so the git repository contained the binary Scribus files, and graphic files. [15:58:00] Means those of us who are lazy can click and drop [15:58:22] everything [15:58:30] Yes, as well as the content in plaintext format. [15:58:43] (little nitpick -- Scribus files aren't binary, but XML ;-) [15:59:10] good to know :) [15:59:17] We even keep our planning documents in the repository. [15:59:29] was that method a first, or did you use it already before LGM? [15:59:30] From end to end, it's all in one place, which is really handy. [16:00:01] It was a total first for us 2, at least. We had never worked on a non-programming project using a VCS. [16:00:22] And now we're wondering how we ever lived without that :o) [16:00:24] Same here. And for #0, we weren't even using it yet. [16:00:34] This was something we started in September or so. [16:01:08] And how did the print production work .. i guess people often wonder about that when working with FLOSS tools .. [16:01:48] I'd start by dispelling a very common misconception: we had absolutely no problems with file formats, with regards to sending output to the printer. [16:02:20] Usually i hear many criticism of FLOSS tools in that it doesn't output proper PDF files for print, but i never found any case where this applied. [16:03:49] We were also lucky enough to work with a really amazing printer. [16:03:50] Just asking :) [16:04:20] Mardigrafe, which is owned by one of the developers of Scribus, tends to be incredibly accommodating. [16:04:47] Basically (as I like to say), we kept it in the family. [16:05:27] Louis Desjardins, who owns Mardigrafe, has also organized two LGMeetings and is working on a third right now. [16:06:01] So we didn't have any misunderstandings or mis-communications that might be possible with other print shops [16:06:31] I see. Martin Howse for instance told me he had a hard time with online p.o.d. service lulu.com [16:06:32] Although, in an ideal world, the printer would never notice what software we'd used to creat the magazine ;) [16:06:42] Oh really? [16:06:56] And he finally turned to a local berlin-based printer. [16:06:58] Well, we've been doing our printing, at least, in a rather traditional way [16:07:27] Yeah, i think this wasn't a POD job, but regular offset-printing. [16:07:32] Local is good. And having a good printer makes all the difference in the world. [16:07:43] One last point on my list: You are using "crowdfunding" to gather resources for the printing costs. What is your experience with this? [16:07:46] Yep. Proper offset. Plates and all. [16:08:13] The crowdfunding is a wee bit of a sore point. ************* ************* across the articles, i notice a certain focus on Fonts : are fonts a key element of broadening the impact of FLOSS in the graphics sector (with CSS3 webfonts notably)? ************** ************** [14:40:31] * 57588 66966 :Current global users 57588, max 66966 [14:40:31] * Highest connection count: 4520 (4519 clients) (621024 connections received) [14:40:31] * - card.freenode.net Message of the Day - [14:40:31] * - [14:40:31] * - Welcome to card.freenode.net in Washington, DC, US, kindly sponsored by [14:40:31] * - Team Cymru (http://www.team-cymru.org). [14:40:31] * - [14:40:31] * - CARD, ORSON SCOTT [1951-]. Born in Richland, Washington, Card grew up in [14:40:31] * - California, Arizona, and Utah. He lived in Brazil for two years as an [14:40:31] * - unpaid missionary for the Mormon Church. Author of the Ender and Alvin [14:40:31] * - Maker books, Card's science fiction and fantasy work is strongly influenced [14:40:31] * - by his Mormon cultural background. The first author to win the Hugo and [14:40:31] * - Nebula novel awards two years in a row, Card currently lives in Greensboro, [14:40:31] * - North Carolina, US. [14:40:31] * - [14:40:31] * - [14:40:31] * - You're using freenode, a service of Peer-Directed Projects [14:40:31] * - Center Ltd (http://freenode.net/pdpc.shtml). [14:40:31] * - [14:40:31] * - On the subject of fundraisers, we'd like to thank our donors, [14:40:31] * - hardware and bandwith sponsors and especially The Gallery [14:40:31] * - Project (http://gallery.menalto.com/) and our corporate sponsor [14:40:31] * - Canonical Ltd (http://www.canonical.com) for the generous [14:40:31] * - support. 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[14:40:31] * - [14:40:31] * - If you support the work we do and wish to donate to the PDPC, [14:40:31] * - you may do so over at http://freenode.net/pdpc_donations.shtml [14:40:31] * - [14:40:31] * - Thank you for using freenode! [14:40:31] * - [14:40:31] * End of /MOTD command. [14:40:31] * manu_ sets mode +i manu_ [14:40:31] -NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify . [14:40:38] >NickServ< identify **** [14:40:38] -NickServ- Invalid password for MaNU_. [14:41:26] * Now talking on #libregraphicsmagazine [14:41:57] hi, all here manuel. ready for starting interview in 20 mins. [14:43:55] great. we'll be ready shortly, once Ana and Ricardo get back from lunch. [14:45:22] we'll be on in 10minutes. Chewing last bits now [14:45:51] ok. [14:55:55] * aisc (~ana@237.236.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt) has joined #libregraphicsmagazine [14:57:31] so i guess we're just waiting for Ricardo now. [14:58:35] right, i think we're all here [14:58:42] (i'm sitting right next to ana) [14:58:49] Great! [14:59:11] M4nu: anytime is fine now! [14:59:23] ok, then maybe as an introduction, i tell you a few words about who i am. [14:59:55] my full name is Manuel Schmalstieg, i'm a visual artist, coder, designer, based around Geneva, switzerland. [15:00:31] have gone from comics and animated 16mm film into software and live video processing in the late 90s [15:01:08] working a lot in collective situations, and launched during 2009 an experimental print publishing structure, Greyscale Press. [15:01:47] which is using print-on-demand services to produce books from open-source, found, stolen or anonymous sources [15:02:26] So, this interview is aimed at being published and disseminated through the Greyscale Press website. [15:02:49] i suggest that we already agree on an open licence under which all content of this interview should be published. [15:03:22] sure -- we use CC-BY-SA on our magazine, in case you're okay with that one. Otherwise, which license would you suggest? [15:03:34] CC-BY-SA is fine. [15:04:12] If you're ready, then we start now. [15:04:21] Fine by me [15:04:24] Awesome [15:04:35] Yes with me [15:05:30] First of all, i would like you three to introduce yourself, and also give an overwiew of the main contributors to the LGM nr1 [15:06:08] shall we do alphabetical order? [15:06:11] Ana? [15:06:22] Fine [15:06:55] I have a degree in Communication Design [15:07:22] I currently work as a freelance web and ui interface designer [15:07:43] (let me know also from where you work, and your main web URI) [15:08:05] I became involved with the Libre Graphics Community and the Free Software Movement in general in 2006 [15:08:15] after attending the LGM [15:08:44] Since 2007 I'm working mainly with free software [15:09:16] I'm involved in a small press venture - http://planapress.org - that I present at last LGM [15:09:48] It is dedicated to publishing BD and Iluustration using free software and open licenses [15:10:06] *comics and illustration [15:10:33] I think that's it for now [15:10:39] alright. i think that's fine as an introduction. Ginger? [15:10:49] Here goes. [15:10:51] I trained as a graphic and web designer (BFA in Design, Concordia University, Montreal) but, after working for a very commercial web design firm, got fed up pretty quickly with the design for hire approach. I still do freelance work, but what interests me more is design research. I started working with F/LOSS graphics in 2001, but only got involved in the community in 2009, when I gave a talk at Libre Graphics Meeting in Mont [15:10:51] real. [15:11:32] Now I'm finishing my Masters degree, working on a thesis about colour standards for print. [15:11:57] And I do advocacy work, introducing designers and artists to F/LOSS. [15:12:14] My own work is at http://adaptstudio.ca [15:12:28] And these days, I'm based in Toronto (Canada). [15:12:29] Fine. and you live/work in Montreal? [15:12:33] ok. [15:12:35] Toronto now. [15:12:42] Some work in Montreal still [15:12:49] And I think that's it for me. [15:13:03] Btw, ana, i think i missed live/work location? [15:13:28] I was born and I live in Porto, Portugal [15:13:50] And it's also where I work from [15:14:03] Ok. [15:14:27] My name is Ricardo Lafuente, and my academic background is communication and media design (BA at Porto Fine Arts, MA at Piet Zwart Institute in Rotterdam). I've been doing stuff as a designer, hacker, artist and coder. I made the switch to FLOSS tools in 2006, and since then i've been mostly working with code for design purposes, as well as coding for the web and other kinds of hacks. Since September i'm a teacher at Port [15:15:03] Also live and work from Porto. [15:16:31] Thanks. I understand that you three are the core editorial team. What other people were involved, to what degree? And was the work done via online .CA / .PT communication, or rather in one geographic place? [15:16:56] For our very first (trial) issue, we were actually in one place at the same time. [15:17:23] That's issue #0, which we completed in May at the Libre Graphics Meeting in Brussels. [15:17:38] Even most of our contributors for that one were actually in the same room as us. [15:17:47] But things have been very different since then. [15:17:55] (as an aside, it was done in 3 days from start to finish, and available at http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2010/index.php?p=en%2Fnews%2Fmagazine) [15:18:20] So #0 was done in the context of a "local" event. Was that different for #1 ? [15:18:25] This time around, almost all of our work was done by distance [15:18:46] We met once, for a few hours, in Barcelona, in November. [15:19:12] Our contributors are from around the world (although both interviews in the issue took place in person) [15:19:35] And most of our collaboration was helped around by a shared git repository. [15:20:00] We have a mailing list we use frequently [15:20:56] was the release date linked to some special context - festival, conference ... [15:21:00] And also a community advisory board, made up of 5 people who are connected, in some way or another, to the Libre Graphics scene. The board's purpose is to advise us when we reach some hard-to-decide editorial decisions. [15:21:27] The release date actually was chosen strategically [15:21:33] although we overshot a little. [15:21:56] The plan was to have print copies of the magazine on hand in November so that we could take them to a number of events [15:22:10] At the beginning of November, FOSSASIA took place in Vietnam [15:22:22] The DIY Citizenship conference happened in Toronto [15:22:35] and the HTMlles festival happened in Montreal. [15:22:39] All in one weekend. [15:22:54] We had hoped to send magazines to all these events, as well as to the Expozine small press fair. [15:23:11] Unfortunately, we didn't get all of our printing sorted out in time. [15:23:31] But that was part of the strategic reasoning behind November. [15:23:38] Plus, it works with our release cycle [15:24:00] We released an issue last May, we knew we wouldn't be able to get one ready in August, [15:24:19] so we decided to go, from November, with a November-February-May-August release cycle [15:24:30] Regarding release cycle, i read sometimes 1.1 and sometimes #1 - which is correct? [15:24:47] Both are, in a way [15:25:02] Our idea was to use 1.1-1.4 for our first year run [15:25:03] 1.1 is the volume and issue number [15:25:11] #1 is the issue number [15:25:35] What it means is that there'll be another #1, this time next year, but it'll be the #1 of volume 2 [15:25:37] Hence, 2.1 [15:26:08] oops. sorry. lag. [15:26:12] As i see it, the mag was born in the context of the LGMeetings, but is structurally independent from it [15:26:17] yep [15:26:41] But it's throught that meetings/conferences that your team came together. [15:27:11] For sure. But we realize that we need to grow a presence beyond the confines of an annual meeting [15:28:29] Now a bit more about content ... [15:28:52] what were your founding ideas, when you decided to do a "magazine" [15:29:05] what does this term mean actually, today. [15:29:15] Ooh. Nice question. [15:29:25] I've been meaning to write a blog post about that. [15:29:36] or: where did you start from : content , title, target audience ? [15:29:44] We see the importance of a print magazine as being largely in its accessibility and immediacy. [15:30:02] We really have to trace ourselves to two different start dates [15:30:06] And two different ideas [15:30:30] In May, someone (Femke? a.le.?) came up with the idea of doing a magazine for LGM [15:30:43] Ana and Ricardo took the lead on that [15:30:53] and then brought me in to handle the editorial stuff\ [15:31:17] After that mad rush, which didn't have a huge amount of thought about philosophy, [15:31:29] we sat for a few months and then brought the idea back in August [15:32:02] For me, it was because I'd been traveling around, meeting artists, designers and developers, and realizing that we had a community without a voice. [15:32:24] So we discussed it and decided to do it again, better. And we wrote a manifesto. [15:32:51] So in that sense, we thought about format and audience first, because the format is really tied into the audience [15:33:40] here i would love to have input from Ana and Ricardo as well. [15:33:50] Sure, [15:35:20] We jumped on the opportunity to work on #0 since we were very energised by the pre-LibreGraphicsMeeting spirit. Also, we were helping OSP with organising the meeting, and the idea of having a magazine that could be released during the conference was too exciting not to try. [15:36:19] We had seen ginger's work and texts before, and asked her to work together since she was much more seasoned in editorial contexts, while we were more comfortable taking over the design side. [15:37:14] Even though it was a 'mad rush' the libre graphics mag #0 was a great way to test our improvised team. A few months after we started discussing how we could take this project farther. We all new it was a significant turning point and that it would be a great chance to put out all the great grapical work being done with free software [15:38:48] And such a publication was definitely something that we wanted to see happen. Designers who use FLOSS are a rarity in our part of the world (and not abundant in other places either), so the opportunity to create a project to further this agenda was something that we quickly jumped on. [15:39:45] it's striking that your mag is unifying so many different aspects: samples of graphic work done with FLOSS, interviews, cultural discourse, and a little bit of tech stuff. [15:39:47] Of course, it's not only about designers; the whole idea of Libre Graphics extends to the arts in general, and other peripheral areas of thought and action (social studies, writing, etc.) [15:40:31] We're really trying hard to bring in the best of what we've seen (and consumed!) in traditional arts magazines, too [15:40:44] There's the idea that we need a little criticality and thought in our practice [15:41:27] But at the same time, to be useful and palatable to people new to this world (and to ourselves) we need to be able to show off some really beautiful, professional work. [15:41:46] And it doesn't do to be afraid of our technology, either. [15:41:57] So we're not. Which is why we do things like include code. [15:42:11] also, each time i pick up a linux magazine in some newspaper shop, i'm astonished by the absence of cultural discourse. i guess that might have been a motivation for you too? [15:42:13] Because it's worth seeing the code under the image. [15:42:56] We're certainly pleased to see ourselves offering something Linux magazines aren't although we like to think that we serve a slightly more generalist audience. [15:43:12] Anyone working in a visual field should be able to pick it up and enjoy it. [15:43:26] Definitely, we've been on both sides, reading both arts publications and computer magazines. One of the first questions was how to have something that could bridge those worlds together without becoming an awkward collage of tech and culture. [15:44:24] And it does beg the question of why tech and culture should be so much apart as they are in the current editorial landscape. [15:45:55] in your manifesto, you mention a possible "online version" that would differ from the print mag. [15:46:19] and when reading the PDF of your mag on screen, it's obvious that it works best as a printed item. [15:46:24] Not that there's an easy answer, but that's one of the challenges we decided to take on in building Libre Graphics Magazine. Also, that issue pertains not only to editorial content, but to the design aspect as well -- namely, we had to play with the conventions associated to both arts publications and computer magazines, again trying to combine them into something that is more than a mishmash between the two. [15:48:16] so the "web edition" .. is this planned for the future, or will your main focus be the printed mag. [15:48:19] And we are very committed to the (forthcoming) web version, because there's something a little absurd about reading on a screen something that's meant to be held [15:48:29] (answering next question:) Yes, we did plan (and are planning) for different magazine formats suited to different use cases. For instance, it's okay to have a PDF version, but are there easier ways to print out the edition?We didn't have the time to work on those for issue #1, but there will be news in the next issues. [15:48:50] sorry, bad sentence there: [15:48:58] Once we have a little more stability, we'll be working on it. [15:49:19] At the moment, we've been focusing on populating, publishing and being able to afford the printing costs of the print edition [15:49:27] "but are there easier ways to print out the edition?" -> "but maybe we can think of something better than a print-like PDF for people to print the magazine at home?" [15:51:06] I'd add that our main focus would be the printed mag; there's something in that object that a website cannot replace. [15:51:27] I assume that you have used a pretty non-standard workflow for print publishing, using Git for unifying / synching the different contributions ... how did that work, what were the problems you met, unexpected discoveries... [15:51:28] For sure. We can hand it out, it can be shared, distributed, kept, catalogued... [15:52:20] Yes, we did use a few unorthodox procedures... [15:53:03] Well, the most important thing I can remember is that we need a README for the layout document, stating which version of the software were using. [15:53:25] Git was a godsend. In the design world there's not much awareness about version control systems, but using one was a huge help in that all our contributions and corrections are catalogued. [15:54:57] And Scribus, our tool of choice to create the magazine layout, held out very well from start to end. We ran into quite a few bugs (not only in Scribus), which we gathered into a list and will send to the respective bug trackers. [15:55:16] Also a centralised place to keep all the relevant data relating the magazine. From content to production and planning documents. [15:56:08] Plus, the nice thing about git is that it allows us all to tailor it to our personal preferences, in terms of frontends. [15:56:46] As a case of extremes, one of our columnists likes using git from the command line, whereas I prefer Sparkleshare. [15:56:52] Finally, to be honest, we didn't run into significant problems in that workflow. Our content was synced between all of us, we could quickly share corrections, as well as be able to change the layout at will without risk of conflicts between our versions. [15:57:27] We used Git from the command line. It's quiet simple. [15:57:37] *quite [15:57:52] There we go. Different frontends, same backend. [15:57:58] and so the git repository contained the binary Scribus files, and graphic files. [15:58:00] Means those of us who are lazy can click and drop [15:58:22] everything [15:58:30] Yes, as well as the content in plaintext format. [15:58:43] (little nitpick -- Scribus files aren't binary, but XML ;-) [15:59:10] good to know :) [15:59:17] We even keep our planning documents in the repository. [15:59:29] was that method a first, or did you use it already before LGM? [15:59:30] From end to end, it's all in one place, which is really handy. [16:00:01] It was a total first for us 2, at least. We had never worked on a non-programming project using a VCS. [16:00:22] And now we're wondering how we ever lived without that :o) [16:00:24] Same here. And for #0, we weren't even using it yet. [16:00:34] This was something we started in September or so. [16:01:08] And how did the print production work .. i guess people often wonder about that when working with FLOSS tools .. [16:01:48] I'd start by dispelling a very common misconception: we had absolutely no problems with file formats, with regards to sending output to the printer. [16:02:20] Usually i hear many criticism of FLOSS tools in that it doesn't output proper PDF files for print, but i never found any case where this applied. [16:03:49] We were also lucky enough to work with a really amazing printer. [16:03:50] Just asking :) [16:04:20] Mardigrafe, which is owned by one of the developers of Scribus, tends to be incredibly accommodating. [16:04:47] Basically (as I like to say), we kept it in the family. [16:05:27] Louis Desjardins, who owns Mardigrafe, has also organized two LGMeetings and is working on a third right now. [16:06:01] So we didn't have any misunderstandings or mis-communications that might be possible with other print shops [16:06:31] I see. Martin Howse for instance told me he had a hard time with online p.o.d. service lulu.com [16:06:32] Although, in an ideal world, the printer would never notice what software we'd used to creat the magazine ;) [16:06:42] Oh really? [16:06:56] And he finally turned to a local berlin-based printer. [16:06:58] Well, we've been doing our printing, at least, in a rather traditional way [16:07:27] Yeah, i think this wasn't a POD job, but regular offset-printing. [16:07:32] Local is good. And having a good printer makes all the difference in the world. [16:07:43] One last point on my list: You are using "crowdfunding" to gather resources for the printing costs. What is your experience with this? [16:07:46] Yep. Proper offset. Plates and all. [16:08:13] The crowdfunding is a wee bit of a sore point. [16:08:52] It's quite a small crowd, for a start, which means there isn't much money going around. [16:09:07] Our main source of revenue isn't actually donation based. [16:09:35] As it breaks down, we make some revenue from sales of print copies [16:09:36] So what is the main source - cultural funding? [16:10:05] The main source at the moment is us. Issue #0 was funded by several levels of Belgian government. [16:10:15] Issue 1.1 was out of our own pockets for the most part. [16:10:39] At the moment, we have about half of the cost of printing recouped, which is nice. [16:10:58] But we're aiming, in future issues, to offset the cost of printing with advertisements. [16:11:03] Although not many. [16:11:44] And once we've published two issues, we'll be eligible to apply for cultural funding in Canada (since we are, structurally at least, a Canadian publication) [16:12:16] The real goal is to take revenue from sales completely out of the equation. [16:13:00] So that we're actually able to give away as many as possible, without having to think that we need to hold back x amount in order to make our money back. [16:13:20] So in that sense too, it's a pretty traditional print publishing model. [16:13:40] Except we're not "filling the content hole" [16:13:46] One thing about Scribus, your main layout tool : has the fact of being in contact with that software's developers trigger some exchange, in one way or another ? such as features specifically needed for your work being implemented etc .. [16:13:55] We're very careful about the balance of content and advertising. [16:15:22] Not yet, but that's definitely in our plans, [16:16:14] We worked by ourselves on this issue so that we could get used to a magazine workflow inside Scribus. [16:16:37] And from there, realise where we could streamline some bottlenecks that we found. [16:17:05] With that, we now have quite a few feature requests, we'll be approaching the Scribus team about those. [16:17:15] across the articles, i notice a certain focus on Fonts : are fonts a key element of broadening the impact of FLOSS in the graphics sector (with CSS3 webfonts notably)? [16:17:43] In this case, it's a matter of a lot of interesting and high profile work being done in fonts [16:18:11] there's a sort of convergence at the moment, among many F/LOSS design people, in the area of type design [16:18:36] but it's certainly not our sole area of focus\ [16:18:51] As well as typography being a field where a libre approach can bring some really interesting additions. We ran with this for the 'official' magazine typeface, which is a fork of OSP's NotCourier Sans. [16:19:31] Being able to work on someone else's typeface and make it yours, without having to bother with authorisation, is something that's just not present in traditional type design. [16:20:09] Either practically or philosophically. [16:20:47] actually, if we could go back for a moment to Scribus [16:20:58] sure. [16:21:02] it's worth mentioning that Scribus is in a really interesting place right now [16:21:15] they're just finishing up a period of really intensive work [16:21:30] funded by the Organization Internationale de la Francophonie [16:21:42] to implement a number of new fixes and features [16:22:06] three developers have spent the last several months working very nearly full time to put in some exciting work [16:22:20] great to hear that. [16:22:26] so we're pretty excited to see what'll be coming out the pipe from Scribus in the coming months [16:23:38] we have now covered the areas of this discussion that seemed most releveant to me. [16:23:46] so depending on your time, we can close here. [16:24:05] or go through the "last words" you might want to add. [16:25:08] perhaps regarding the future or your project. how other people can contribute, topics you would be most interested in covering ... [16:25:14] we're in no major hurry. if you have anything else that you're tangentially interested in, we could cover that [16:26:03] in terms of the future... [16:26:27] we've got most of our year a little planned out already, which is quite promising. [16:26:50] In February, 1.2, Use Cases and Affordances is coming out. And we've got some pretty exciting stuff for that already. [16:27:02] Although the call for submissions is still open. [16:27:58] In May, we'll be releasing (in time for LGM 2011) the Collaboration, Collaboratively issue. [16:28:19] Which is, as the name implies, a collaborative approach to collaboration. [16:28:48] And in August, an honest to goodness, actually Type Design issue. Devoted to type design. [16:29:08] What links all of these topics is that we believe they're areas which can be uniquely approached by F/LOSS. [16:29:32] sounds extremely exciting indeed. [16:29:48] We feel that things like workflow, collaboration and indeed type design, are areas in which F/LOSS already has some expertise. [16:30:03] i have to cut this interview now, as i need to go back to family duties. [16:30:17] (ie my little 10 days old daughter) [16:30:17] speaking of which, congratulations on your process forking :-) [16:30:28] :) ! [16:30:41] well, thank you very much for your time. [16:30:49] And thank you. [16:30:52] thank you! [16:31:04] and thank you! [16:31:08] i will send you the link of the interview before i publish it, so you can have a look and correct any factual mistakes. [16:31:17] perfect! [16:31:21] was nice typing/talking. [16:32:09] goodbye for now. [16:32:22] likewise [16:32:24] cheers! ******* START FULL INTERVIEW [14:59:23] ok, then maybe as an introduction, i tell you a few words about who i am. [14:59:55] my full name is Manuel Schmalstieg, i'm a visual artist, coder, designer, based around Geneva, switzerland. [15:00:31] have gone from comics and animated 16mm film into software and live video processing in the late 90s [15:01:08] working a lot in collective situations, and launched during 2009 an experimental print publishing structure, Greyscale Press. [15:01:47] which is using print-on-demand services to produce books from open-source, found, stolen or anonymous sources [15:02:26] So, this interview is aimed at being published and disseminated through the Greyscale Press website. [15:02:49] i suggest that we already agree on an open licence under which all content of this interview should be published. [15:03:22] sure -- we use CC-BY-SA on our magazine, in case you're okay with that one. Otherwise, which license would you suggest? [15:03:34] CC-BY-SA is fine. [15:04:12] If you're ready, then we start now. [15:04:21] Fine by me [15:04:24] Awesome [15:04:35] Yes with me [15:05:30] First of all, i would like you three to introduce yourself, and also give an overwiew of the main contributors to the LGM nr1 [15:06:08] shall we do alphabetical order? [15:06:11] Ana? [15:06:22] Fine [15:06:55] I have a degree in Communication Design [15:07:22] I currently work as a freelance web and ui interface designer [15:07:43] (let me know also from where you work, and your main web URI) [15:08:05] I became involved with the Libre Graphics Community and the Free Software Movement in general in 2006 [15:08:44] Since 2007 I'm working mainly with free software [15:09:16] I'm involved in a small press venture - http://planapress.org - that I present at last LGM [15:09:48] It is dedicated to publishing BD and Iluustration using free software and open licenses [15:10:06] *comics and illustration [15:10:33] I think that's it for now [15:10:39] alright. i think that's fine as an introduction. Ginger? [15:10:49] Here goes. [15:10:51] I trained as a graphic and web designer (BFA in Design, Concordia University, Montreal) but, after working for a very commercial web design firm, got fed up pretty quickly with the design for hire approach. I still do freelance work, but what interests me more is design research. I started working with F/LOSS graphics in 2001, but only got involved in the community in 2009, when I gave a talk at Libre Graphics Meeting in Mont [15:10:51] real. [15:11:32] Now I'm finishing my Masters degree, working on a thesis about colour standards for print. [15:11:57] And I do advocacy work, introducing designers and artists to F/LOSS. [15:12:14] My own work is at http://adaptstudio.ca [15:12:28] And these days, I'm based in Toronto (Canada). [15:12:29] Fine. and you live/work in Montreal? [15:12:33] ok. [15:12:35] Toronto now. [15:12:42] Some work in Montreal still [15:12:49] And I think that's it for me. [15:13:03] Btw, ana, i think i missed live/work location? [15:13:28] I was born and I live in Porto, Portugal [15:13:50] And it's also where I work from [15:14:03] Ok. [15:14:27] My name is Ricardo Lafuente, and my academic background is communication and media design (BA at Porto Fine Arts, MA at Piet Zwart Institute in Rotterdam). I've been doing stuff as a designer, hacker, artist and coder. I made the switch to FLOSS tools in 2006, and since then i've been mostly working with code for design purposes, as well as coding for the web and other kinds of hacks. Since September i'm a teacher at Port [15:15:03] Also live and work from Porto. [15:16:31] Thanks. I understand that you three are the core editorial team. What other people were involved, to what degree? And was the work done via online .CA / .PT communication, or rather in one geographic place? [15:16:56] For our very first (trial) issue, we were actually in one place at the same time. [15:17:23] That's issue #0, which we completed in May at the Libre Graphics Meeting in Brussels. [15:17:38] Even most of our contributors for that one were actually in the same room as us. [15:17:47] But things have been very different since then. [15:17:55] (as an aside, it was done in 3 days from start to finish, and available at http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2010/index.php?p=en%2Fnews%2Fmagazine) [15:18:20] So #0 was done in the context of a "local" event. Was that different for #1 ? [15:18:25] This time around, almost all of our work was done by distance [15:18:46] We met once, for a few hours, in Barcelona, in November. [15:19:12] Our contributors are from around the world (although both interviews in the issue took place in person) [15:19:35] And most of our collaboration was helped around by a shared git repository. [15:20:00] We have a mailing list we use frequently [15:20:56] was the release date linked to some special context - festival, conference ... [15:21:00] And also a community advisory board, made up of 5 people who are connected, in some way or another, to the Libre Graphics scene. The board's purpose is to advise us when we reach some hard-to-decide editorial decisions. [15:21:27] The release date actually was chosen strategically [15:21:33] although we overshot a little. [15:21:56] The plan was to have print copies of the magazine on hand in November so that we could take them to a number of events [15:22:10] At the beginning of November, FOSSASIA took place in Vietnam [15:22:22] The DIY Citizenship conference happened in Toronto [15:22:35] and the HTMlles festival happened in Montreal. [15:22:39] All in one weekend. [15:22:54] We had hoped to send magazines to all these events, as well as to the Expozine small press fair. [15:23:11] Unfortunately, we didn't get all of our printing sorted out in time. [15:23:31] But that was part of the strategic reasoning behind November. [15:23:38] Plus, it works with our release cycle [15:24:00] We released an issue last May, we knew we wouldn't be able to get one ready in August, [15:24:19] so we decided to go, from November, with a November-February-May-August release cycle [15:24:30] Regarding release cycle, i read sometimes 1.1 and sometimes #1 - which is correct? [15:24:47] Both are, in a way [15:25:02] Our idea was to use 1.1-1.4 for our first year run [15:25:03] 1.1 is the volume and issue number [15:25:11] #1 is the issue number [15:25:35] What it means is that there'll be another #1, this time next year, but it'll be the #1 of volume 2 [15:25:37] Hence, 2.1 [15:26:08] oops. sorry. lag. [15:26:12] As i see it, the mag was born in the context of the LGMeetings, but is structurally independent from it [15:26:17] yep [15:26:41] But it's throught that meetings/conferences that your team came together. [15:27:11] For sure. But we realize that we need to grow a presence beyond the confines of an annual meeting [15:28:29] Now a bit more about content ... [15:28:52] what were your founding ideas, when you decided to do a "magazine" [15:29:05] what does this term mean actually, today. [15:29:15] Ooh. Nice question. [15:29:25] I've been meaning to write a blog post about that. [15:29:36] or: where did you start from : content , title, target audience ? [15:29:44] We see the importance of a print magazine as being largely in its accessibility and immediacy. [15:30:02] We really have to trace ourselves to two different start dates [15:30:06] And two different ideas [15:30:30] In May, someone (Femke? a.le.?) came up with the idea of doing a magazine for LGM [15:30:43] Ana and Ricardo took the lead on that [15:30:53] and then brought me in to handle the editorial stuff\ [15:31:17] After that mad rush, which didn't have a huge amount of thought about philosophy, [15:31:29] we sat for a few months and then brought the idea back in August [15:32:02] For me, it was because I'd been traveling around, meeting artists, designers and developers, and realizing that we had a community without a voice. [15:32:24] So we discussed it and decided to do it again, better. And we wrote a manifesto. [15:32:51] So in that sense, we thought about format and audience first, because the format is really tied into the audience [15:33:40] here i would love to have input from Ana and Ricardo as well. [15:33:50] Sure, [15:35:20] We jumped on the opportunity to work on #0 since we were very energised by the pre-LibreGraphicsMeeting spirit. Also, we were helping OSP with organising the meeting, and the idea of having a magazine that could be released during the conference was too exciting not to try. [15:36:19] We had seen ginger's work and texts before, and asked her to work together since she was much more seasoned in editorial contexts, while we were more comfortable taking over the design side. [15:37:14] Even though it was a 'mad rush' the libre graphics mag #0 was a great way to test our improvised team. A few months after we started discussing how we could take this project farther. We all new it was a significant turning point and that it would be a great chance to put out all the great grapical work being done with free software [15:38:48] And such a publication was definitely something that we wanted to see happen. Designers who use FLOSS are a rarity in our part of the world (and not abundant in other places either), so the opportunity to create a project to further this agenda was something that we quickly jumped on. [15:39:45] it's striking that your mag is unifying so many different aspects: samples of graphic work done with FLOSS, interviews, cultural discourse, and a little bit of tech stuff. [15:39:47] Of course, it's not only about designers; the whole idea of Libre Graphics extends to the arts in general, and other peripheral areas of thought and action (social studies, writing, etc.) [15:40:31] We're really trying hard to bring in the best of what we've seen (and consumed!) in traditional arts magazines, too [15:40:44] There's the idea that we need a little criticality and thought in our practice [15:41:27] But at the same time, to be useful and palatable to people new to this world (and to ourselves) we need to be able to show off some really beautiful, professional work. [15:41:46] And it doesn't do to be afraid of our technology, either. [15:41:57] So we're not. Which is why we do things like include code. [15:42:11] also, each time i pick up a linux magazine in some newspaper shop, i'm astonished by the absence of cultural discourse. i guess that might have been a motivation for you too? [15:42:13] Because it's worth seeing the code under the image. [15:42:56] We're certainly pleased to see ourselves offering something Linux magazines aren't although we like to think that we serve a slightly more generalist audience. [15:43:12] Anyone working in a visual field should be able to pick it up and enjoy it. [15:43:26] Definitely, we've been on both sides, reading both arts publications and computer magazines. One of the first questions was how to have something that could bridge those worlds together without becoming an awkward collage of tech and culture. [15:44:24] And it does beg the question of why tech and culture should be so much apart as they are in the current editorial landscape. [15:45:55] in your manifesto, you mention a possible "online version" that would differ from the print mag. [15:46:19] and when reading the PDF of your mag on screen, it's obvious that it works best as a printed item. [15:46:24] Not that there's an easy answer, but that's one of the challenges we decided to take on in building Libre Graphics Magazine. Also, that issue pertains not only to editorial content, but to the design aspect as well -- namely, we had to play with the conventions associated to both arts publications and computer magazines, again trying to combine them into something that is more than a mishmash between the two. [15:48:16] so the "web edition" .. is this planned for the future, or will your main focus be the printed mag. [15:48:19] And we are very committed to the (forthcoming) web version, because there's something a little absurd about reading on a screen something that's meant to be held [15:48:29] (answering next question:) Yes, we did plan (and are planning) for different magazine formats suited to different use cases. For instance, it's okay to have a PDF version, but are there easier ways to print out the edition?We didn't have the time to work on those for issue #1, but there will be news in the next issues. [15:48:50] sorry, bad sentence there: [15:48:58] Once we have a little more stability, we'll be working on it. [15:49:19] At the moment, we've been focusing on populating, publishing and being able to afford the printing costs of the print edition [15:49:27] "but are there easier ways to print out the edition?" -> "but maybe we can think of something better than a print-like PDF for people to print the magazine at home?" [15:51:06] I'd add that our main focus would be the printed mag; there's something in that object that a website cannot replace. [15:51:27] I assume that you have used a pretty non-standard workflow for print publishing, using Git for unifying / synching the different contributions ... how did that work, what were the problems you met, unexpected discoveries... [15:51:28] For sure. We can hand it out, it can be shared, distributed, kept, catalogued... [15:52:20] Yes, we did use a few unorthodox procedures... [15:53:03] Well, the most important thing I can remember is that we need a README for the layout document, stating which version of the software were using. [15:53:25] Git was a godsend. In the design world there's not much awareness about version control systems, but using one was a huge help in that all our contributions and corrections are catalogued. [15:54:57] And Scribus, our tool of choice to create the magazine layout, held out very well from start to end. We ran into quite a few bugs (not only in Scribus), which we gathered into a list and will send to the respective bug trackers. [15:55:16] Also a centralised place to keep all the relevant data relating the magazine. From content to production and planning documents. [15:56:08] Plus, the nice thing about git is that it allows us all to tailor it to our personal preferences, in terms of frontends. [15:56:46] As a case of extremes, one of our columnists likes using git from the command line, whereas I prefer Sparkleshare. [15:56:52] Finally, to be honest, we didn't run into significant problems in that workflow. Our content was synced between all of us, we could quickly share corrections, as well as be able to change the layout at will without risk of conflicts between our versions. [15:57:27] We used Git from the command line. It's quiet simple. [15:57:37] *quite [15:57:52] There we go. Different frontends, same backend. [15:57:58] and so the git repository contained the binary Scribus files, and graphic files. [15:58:00] Means those of us who are lazy can click and drop [15:58:22] everything [15:58:30] Yes, as well as the content in plaintext format. [15:58:43] (little nitpick -- Scribus files aren't binary, but XML ;-) [15:59:10] good to know :) [15:59:17] We even keep our planning documents in the repository. [15:59:29] was that method a first, or did you use it already before LGM? [15:59:30] From end to end, it's all in one place, which is really handy. [16:00:01] It was a total first for us 2, at least. We had never worked on a non-programming project using a VCS. [16:00:22] And now we're wondering how we ever lived without that :o) [16:00:24] Same here. And for #0, we weren't even using it yet. [16:00:34] This was something we started in September or so. [16:01:08] And how did the print production work .. i guess people often wonder about that when working with FLOSS tools .. [16:01:48] I'd start by dispelling a very common misconception: we had absolutely no problems with file formats, with regards to sending output to the printer. [16:02:20] Usually i hear many criticism of FLOSS tools in that it doesn't output proper PDF files for print, but i never found any case where this applied. [16:03:49] We were also lucky enough to work with a really amazing printer. [16:03:50] Just asking :) [16:04:20] Mardigrafe, which is owned by one of the developers of Scribus, tends to be incredibly accommodating. [16:04:47] Basically (as I like to say), we kept it in the family. [16:05:27] Louis Desjardins, who owns Mardigrafe, has also organized two LGMeetings and is working on a third right now. [16:06:01] So we didn't have any misunderstandings or mis-communications that might be possible with other print shops [16:06:31] I see. Martin Howse for instance told me he had a hard time with online p.o.d. service lulu.com [16:06:32] Although, in an ideal world, the printer would never notice what software we'd used to creat the magazine ;) [16:06:42] Oh really? [16:06:56] And he finally turned to a local berlin-based printer. [16:06:58] Well, we've been doing our printing, at least, in a rather traditional way [16:07:27] Yeah, i think this wasn't a POD job, but regular offset-printing. [16:07:32] Local is good. And having a good printer makes all the difference in the world. [16:07:43] One last point on my list: You are using "crowdfunding" to gather resources for the printing costs. What is your experience with this? [16:07:46] Yep. Proper offset. Plates and all. [16:08:13] The crowdfunding is a wee bit of a sore point. [16:08:52] It's quite a small crowd, for a start, which means there isn't much money going around. [16:09:07] Our main source of revenue isn't actually donation based. [16:09:35] As it breaks down, we make some revenue from sales of print copies [16:09:36] So what is the main source - cultural funding? [16:10:05] The main source at the moment is us. Issue #0 was funded by several levels of Belgian government. [16:10:15] Issue 1.1 was out of our own pockets for the most part. [16:10:39] At the moment, we have about half of the cost of printing recouped, which is nice. [16:10:58] But we're aiming, in future issues, to offset the cost of printing with advertisements. [16:11:03] Although not many. [16:11:44] And once we've published two issues, we'll be eligible to apply for cultural funding in Canada (since we are, structurally at least, a Canadian publication) [16:12:16] The real goal is to take revenue from sales completely out of the equation. [16:13:00] So that we're actually able to give away as many as possible, without having to think that we need to hold back x amount in order to make our money back. [16:13:20] So in that sense too, it's a pretty traditional print publishing model. [16:13:40] Except we're not "filling the content hole" [16:13:46] One thing about Scribus, your main layout tool : has the fact of being in contact with that software's developers trigger some exchange, in one way or another ? such as features specifically needed for your work being implemented etc .. [16:13:55] We're very careful about the balance of content and advertising. [16:15:22] Not yet, but that's definitely in our plans, [16:16:14] We worked by ourselves on this issue so that we could get used to a magazine workflow inside Scribus. [16:16:37] And from there, realise where we could streamline some bottlenecks that we found. [16:17:05] With that, we now have quite a few feature requests, we'll be approaching the Scribus team about those. [16:17:15] across the articles, i notice a certain focus on Fonts : are fonts a key element of broadening the impact of FLOSS in the graphics sector (with CSS3 webfonts notably)? [16:17:43] In this case, it's a matter of a lot of interesting and high profile work being done in fonts [16:18:11] there's a sort of convergence at the moment, among many F/LOSS design people, in the area of type design [16:18:36] but it's certainly not our sole area of focus\ [16:18:51] As well as typography being a field where a libre approach can bring some really interesting additions. We ran with this for the 'official' magazine typeface, which is a fork of OSP's NotCourier Sans. [16:19:31] Being able to work on someone else's typeface and make it yours, without having to bother with authorisation, is something that's just not present in traditional type design. [16:20:09] Either practically or philosophically. [16:20:47] actually, if we could go back for a moment to Scribus [16:20:58] sure. [16:21:02] it's worth mentioning that Scribus is in a really interesting place right now [16:21:15] they're just finishing up a period of really intensive work [16:21:30] funded by the Organization Internationale de la Francophonie [16:21:42] to implement a number of new fixes and features [16:22:06] three developers have spent the last several months working very nearly full time to put in some exciting work [16:22:20] great to hear that. [16:22:26] so we're pretty excited to see what'll be coming out the pipe from Scribus in the coming months [16:23:38] we have now covered the areas of this discussion that seemed most releveant to me. [16:23:46] so depending on your time, we can close here. [16:24:05] or go through the "last words" you might want to add. [16:25:08] perhaps regarding the future or your project. how other people can contribute, topics you would be most interested in covering ... [16:25:14] we're in no major hurry. if you have anything else that you're tangentially interested in, we could cover that [16:26:03] in terms of the future... [16:26:27] we've got most of our year a little planned out already, which is quite promising. [16:26:50] In February, 1.2, Use Cases and Affordances is coming out. And we've got some pretty exciting stuff for that already. [16:27:02] Although the call for submissions is still open. [16:27:58] In May, we'll be releasing (in time for LGM 2011) the Collaboration, Collaboratively issue. [16:28:19] Which is, as the name implies, a collaborative approach to collaboration. [16:28:48] And in August, an honest to goodness, actually Type Design issue. Devoted to type design. [16:29:08] What links all of these topics is that we believe they're areas which can be uniquely approached by F/LOSS. [16:29:32] sounds extremely exciting indeed. [16:29:48] We feel that things like workflow, collaboration and indeed type design, are areas in which F/LOSS already has some expertise. [16:30:03] i have to cut this interview now, as i need to go back to family duties. [16:30:17] (ie my little 10 days old daughter) [16:30:17] speaking of which, congratulations on your process forking :-) [16:30:28] :) ! [16:30:41] well, thank you very much for your time. [16:30:49] And thank you. [16:30:52] thank you! [16:31:04] and thank you! [16:31:08] i will send you the link of the interview before i publish it, so you can have a look and correct any factual mistakes. [16:31:17] perfect! [16:31:21] was nice typing/talking. [16:32:09] goodbye for now. [16:32:22] likewise [16:32:24] cheers! [16:53:32] * aisc (~ana@237.236.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt) has left #libregraphicsmagazine [16:55:34] * Disconnected (). [17:10:26] * Looking up irc.freenode.net [17:10:29] * Connecting to chat.freenode.net (130.237.188.200) port 6667... [17:10:29] * Connected. 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